Powerlifting, Plant-Based Diets, Macro-Tracking with Billie Asprey.

Hi Billie, 

Thanks for coming along to this virtual interview! I’ve been lucky enough to bump into Billie at a couple powerlifting competitions in Melbourne and Sydney. I’ve invited Billie for an interview because I really admire her balanced, laid back approach to training and nutrition that really focuses on leading a joyful and fulfilling life. Billie is a powerlifter and a yoga teacher who encourages self-awareness and empowers women to feel confident in their bodies.
I know you have been following a plant-based diet for over five years now.  What made you decide to pursue a vegetarian diet? 

Adopting a vegetarian diet was initially a purely ethical decision. I’m such an animal lover. If I can get everything my body needs nutritionally without harming another creature, that is just such a no brainer for me. Now and with increased knowledge/awareness, still I’m driven by my love of animals, but also we know that agriculture has a really significant effect on global warming so if I can in a small way have a less-negative impact on that, then I will.

There’s this very widespread attitude that individual action is inadequate to create change, but I completely disagree. If everyone adopts the attitude of “my contribution is too small to be significant” then individual action (or inaction) is extremely powerful and creates huge change, for better or worse. The same can be said in reverse.

I am glad you have found an eating pattern that aligns perfectly with your values. I also believe that every change we make on a personal level to be more environmentally friendly is meaningful (of course, the responsibility still lies with the companies that make the biggest impact on carbon emissions to change their practices). Do you have any tips for individuals who are considering a plant-based diet but also want to lift heavy?

It is unwise to remove an entire food group from your diet with no mind given to how to replace the nutrients lost. Unfortunately, this is common. In removing meat from your diet, you’re removing substantial protein, iron, B12 and creatine -- among many other micronutrients. These are just some noteworthy losses. Not replacing these somewhere else in your diet will have significant implications not only for your performance in the gym, but for your health too.

So that said,

Tip one. Your energy levels, health and performance will suck if you don’t manage your micronutrition.

Tip two. Getting adequate protein and micros is not hard, but it also won’t happen by accident.

Tip three. Eat a variety of foods from a variety of food groups, check your bloods on a regular basis and supplement as needed.

Those are great tips and it is super important to consider what nutrients you need to replace when you switch to a plant-based diet. Other nutrients of concern in plant-based diets that are not reflected in blood tests are calcium & omega 3 fatty acids. Even though it’s entirely possible to get the essential micronutrients through careful planning, fortified foods and supplementation, the fear of poorer performance or muscle gain prevents individuals from pursuing plant-based diets. Do you think powerlifters can be vegan and still perform at their best? Can you build muscle on a plant-based diet and is it more difficult than an omnivore diet?

Absolutely you can! And absolutely it is more difficult -- or moreso, just more effortful. 

The same rules apply for building muscle whether it’s from an omnivore or a plant-based diet. You’ll need an adequate training stimulus, adequate calories and adequate protein. All of that remains the same.

The challenge is that when we think of typically protein rich foods, what do we think of -- meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, whey protein. 

A vegan diet excludes all of those things, which means we need to get our protein from foods that yield less protein per gram (or per calorie -- an additional challenge and consideration for those getting by on lower calorie diets). So it is certainly possible, but it does require significantly more planning and creativity to get adequate calories and protein in to complement your efforts in the gym.

Wondering if you can get strong on a plant-based diet?

Billie is proof that you can! She has followed a vegetarian diet for over 5 years and is ridiculously strong.

I think often there is this notion that plant-based diets are always easy and affordable! It’s refreshing to hear you say it's extra effort but it’s been worth it! Would you like to share your biggest challenge in following a plant-based diet and what has been most rewarding?

If I’m very honest (and this won’t sell plant based diets at all, but it is honest) -- just the sheer effort that goes into consuming adequate protein. I bulk up every meal with as many protein rich foods that I can -- protein-enriched almond milk in my coffees, the highest protein bread I can find (grainy breads typically), Tofurky ham on top of every meal, etc. Vegan protein powders also taste pretty awful (by all means, sell me something to change my mind), so my daily protein shakes to bulk up my intake are not at all enjoyable.

To be clear, my diet as a whole is extremely enjoyable. I eat a really wide range of foods, I enjoy eating out and I get creative in the kitchen. But it is effortful. And the shakes are just bad. But they help.

Eating a plant-based diet is rewarding in and of itself. It’s gratifying living value-aligned, down to what you put on your plate. But certainly, I get a lot out of feeling as though I am acting as some sort of role model for the plant-based strength athlete. Seeing those around me eat more plant-based because they’ve learned a thing or two from me -- be it that it’s possible to make gains without meat, or something more tangible, like that TVP goes great in bolognaise -- feels really good. As I said earlier, I do feel that my individual contributions are significant and meaningful on their own, but seeing them have a flow on effect to my loved ones and my community feels really good.

I appreciate the way you authentically represent the challenges as well as the joys of a plant-based diet. It helps newcomers anticipate challenges and not feel disheartened when they encounter similar challenges. I have intentionally reduced my meat intake over the last few years with most of my protein coming from tofu, dried bean curd, eggs and cheese. However, I have continued to have home-cooked Vietnamese food that includes animal products with my parents as it’s how we bond and show love. When it comes to food, I believe an important aspect of it is intentionality and understanding if the foods we choose truly nourish or satisfy us. 

 In the powerlifting world, a lot of coaches and athletes consider macro-tracking essential for fat loss and performance. What are your thoughts on this? 

Macro-tracking is just a tool. It can be an extremely helpful tool for monitoring dietary habits and calorie and macronutrient intake to support performance and body composition.

Is it essential? Absolutely not. 

Can it do more harm than good in some instances? Absolutely.  

But can it be helpful and contribute to the achievement of very positive outcomes? Absolutely. 

I agree that macro-tracking can be a useful tool but it should not be the tool that clinicians or coaches start with. I would argue that a holistic risk assessment,  dieting history and client preference should be taken into account. What advice would you give someone hoping to transition away from macro-tracking?
Tricky question to answer, because it is a very personal experience. But:

It’s likely you have plenty of negatives of ceasing tracking front of mind, but not many positives. Removing or reducing tracking behaviours has benefits that are many and varied -- more freedom around food, greater ability to partake in and enjoy food environments, less mental load given to food, less time given to food, potential to enhance your relationship with food, fostering long term positive food-related habits and so forth. Spend some time pondering what you have to gain from reducing tracking behaviours and remain cognisant of those when you feel tested and want to reach for your beloved MyFitnessPal.

And second, trust yourself and the knowledge you’ve gained in your time tracking. Tracking apps are just a tool. They don’t do the eating or the dietary restraint/control for you. They are just a diary of sorts. You can cease using them and continue to eat in much the same manner if you’d like.

What is your personal experience with macro tracking? Do you feel like it’s hurt or helped you? 

At different times in my life I’ve benefited significantly from tracking and from not tracking. I’ve had extremely positive experiences with macro tracking and I’ve had extremely negative experiences.

I was first introduced to macro tracking when preparing for my first bikini competition. No doubt it helped me get the job done in getting super lean, but I did find myself with very all or nothing food behaviours at the end of that, with binge eating a huge issue. That was obviously very negative.

I later spent three years completely disconnected from all forms of tracking. I hand on my heart believe this was one of the best things I have done for my relationship with food and with my body. My appearance and body weight became much less salient, all disordered eating behaviours ceased (WHICH WAS HUGE!!!!), I became a much more mindful eater and I could enjoy food more. Because readers will be interested to hear this -- my weight remained neutral in the absence of tracking. I didn’t gain or lose weight over that period.

I have been tracking my nutrition quite diligently again for about 2.5 years now. With a much healthier relationship with food and my body, this has been an overwhelmingly positive experience. I’ve gained significant muscle mass and my strength has improved substantially. When I don’t want to track for a period (if I need a mental break, if I’m on holiday, etc), my behaviours remain pretty consistent. There’s no on/off switch in my eating habits -- just on/off in recording them.

Importantly though, I very well could have achieved these same strength and body composition outcomes without tracking my nutrition in an app -- it’s just a tool that makes my life a little bit easier. 

I am glad you’ve found a way to incorporate macro-tracking in a way that has been helpful for you. Do you see yourself permanently transitioning away from macro-tracking? Do you track any other aspects of your life for example sleep, steps or mood?

I definitely can’t see myself macro-tracking forever. I’ll track for as long as it is a meaningful pursuit for me. For now, I enjoy powerlifting and derive enjoyment and fulfilment from manipulating variables, my body composition and stretching my physical limits. I’ll continue tracking for as long as that is the case; for as long as tracking feeds positively into that outcome; and for as long as it is an enjoyable and positive pursuit. I expect my priorities and values will shift eventually, and my behaviours around food and exercise will change accordingly at that time.

In response to tracking my sleep, steps and mood -- I’m aware of them, but I don’t control them super diligently. I have an ultra regular sleep schedule without much effort (I’m a great sleeper). I sleep and rise at the same time most days. It’s not in need of intervention. Activity wise,  I am an active person by nature and I achieve healthy levels of physical activity without any need to bring too much attention to that. I’m perhaps too in touch with my emotions (lmao), so they are kept a close eye on also.

My attitude towards tracking and really any means of improving health or performance is to do the minimum necessary to achieve the outcome you’re after. Don’t make things harder for yourself than they need to be. In this way, things ought to be more sustainable. I track what I need to, and I let everything else be. For me, there is little to be gained from controlling additional metrics beyond my nutrition and training; they’re fine as they are.

That’s great - one of the biggest factors to maintaining positive behaviour change and their associated health benefits is self-awareness. While tracking can be a good way to initially develop that self-awareness, being able to get to a place where it’s less mental effort and practically habitual is the goal. One of the mistakes that I see beginner and seasoned athletes make is trying to stay in a weight class for too long. As a coach, how do you know which weight class is right and when is it a good time to move up a weight class? 

I think there are two considerations in the right weight class question:

1. Choosing the right weight class for competitive reasons 

2. Choosing the right weight class for quality of life.

Alex Hayes made a post recently that I largely agreed with that states “weight classes are just height classes in disguise.” When it comes to selecting the right weight class to be the most competitive, I think this holds largely true. Tall and thin lifters are going to have a hard time competing against short and jacked lifters of the same weight. If you’re under-muscled and already lean, putting some mass on will lend itself to strength gains, but you may need to move up a weight class to accommodate the extra gains.

I lift recreationally and work only with recreational lifters, so I am more interested in the quality of life consideration. If your current weight class has you eating in an energy restricted state a lot of the time and significant time and mental energy is required to keep you in your current weight class, what’s the point? Don’t let your weight class negatively impact your enjoyment of your hobby and your life. If moving up a weight class enables you more food freedom, the ability to connect with family and friends over food, reduces stress, improves your relationship with food, they are important considerations -- particularly for the recreational lifter who gains very little from remaining in a lighter class anyway.

Just for fun, let’s do a rapid fire round of questions to get to know all the wonderful & wild parts of you! 

• Best bagel topping? Biocheese is an epic vegan cream cheese. That and Nuttelex. In excess.

• Favourite lift? Bench. Always.

• One food you couldn’t live without? Bread in all of it’s wonderful shapes and forms.

• Secret/Unusual talent? I can read backwards. 

  Thank you for your openness and vulnerability today. You’ve shared so many gems with us today and you’ve showed us it’s entirely possible to achieve your goals while making choices that align with your values.

Where can people find you?

Website: www.billieasprey.com

IG: @billieasprey